PROJECT DATA
Since 2022, we have interviewed the past school board members, administrators, educators, community advocates, and parents. Their oral histories told us various experiences of people who were directly and incidentally involved in heritage language programs from the 1970s to the 1980s.
These spoken stories present individually unique insights that are not recorded in the archival documents. In the stories, each interviewee reconnected with their memories about the past. Looking back, they discussed which challenges and inspirations regarding linguistic and racial diversity in Toronto schools (and beyond) have continued or changed in interactions with various people who give meaning to, form relationships around, and build worlds in relation to policies.
Use the left-hand menu below to browse our interviews.
Individual interviewees’ stories include summaries and short video clips. These tags show key actors and themes you’ll see across the interviews.
#Toronto Board #Parents #Teachers #Ministry of Education #Language(s) #Heritage Languages Program #Race, Language and Culture #School(s) #Community group(s)
As important, these stories about linguistic and cultural diversity illuminate how individual people played multiple roles. These stories are not for defining a stance or opinion of a single community. Instead, we aim to understand them as relatable lived experiences.
Ceta Ramkhalawansingh’s story illuminates her insights into the roles of various advocates of linguistic and cultural programs in the Toronto Board of Education in the 1970s. As a staff member, she worked with the Work Group on Multicultural Programs (1974-76) and other members of the Board to lead educational changes.
Date: October 12, 2023 | Location: Toronto, Ontario | Interviewers: Eve Haque, Mandy Lau | Length: 1 hr 14min
Ceta Ramkhalawansingh 12:34
The other thing that was kind of remarkable about the work of the work group is that they listened, and went, they call them “listening in.” So, they would schedule meetings right across the city and invite parents to come. And they dumped, the parents just dumped. So, they listened. They weren’t interrogating these people. They were listening to what they had to say. You know, and the issue of race and racism emerged out of that. And then, they also invited briefs and submissions. Some of that was done, came in, before the draft report [of the Work Group on Multicultural Programs]. But the draft report, when it was released, galvanized a range of response (shaking the head from side to side) from hysteria, to we’re undermining the school system, to support, you know, this is the way to go—
Eve Haque 13:43
For that response was from?
Ceta Ramkhalawansingh 13:45
From parents, teachers, different parts of the city, they were, sort of, very white parts of the city. It was the attitude of “if you come here, you have to learn the language, we’re not going to call you, you’ve just got to fit in.” And all of this other stuff, “You trustees are proposing, it’s just coddling”—they didn’t see it as being critical tools for integration and for becoming part of society. It was like, “You came here”—or it was also some of the more established immigrant groups, “We did it. Why do you need it?” And of course, many of the new immigrant groups were, of course, people of colour. So, you have this incredible divide between the long-established immigrant groups who did not have the kind of settlement supports, and they would say that if they did it, these groups could do it too. So, it was a very (pause) vigorous set of discussions: Some meetings were hostile, but everything was by and large conducted in a fairly respectful kind of manner. People heard what was said. And so, it was good to have put out a draft report and to get the feedback, so you’ll see some modifications in the final report.
Ceta Ramkhalawansingh 15:40
There was sort of a notion of a continuum of programming between “you got to change completely as individuals” to “the institution has to change.” And the work group was very much of the approach that the institution had to change. I would have to say that most of the debate at the school board level was fairly unanimous in terms of its support. You had, Gord Cressy was chair of the School Board. So, he is a very charismatic person, he was able to make sure that the political support was there. And with Duncan and Ned, as senior administration, supporting this effort, I think they were a little bit taken aback by the fact that the trustees wanted to write board policy, and it wasn’t coming from the bureaucracy. But you know, people chilled because it wasn’t the first set of things that happened.
If you’re interested in learning more about Ceta’s story, check out the whole interview.
#Toronto Board #Parents #Race, Language and Culture
Alberto Di Giovanni was one of the leading voices in promoting Italian heritage language programming in the Greater Toronto Area between the 1970s and 1980s. He discusses building grassroots initiatives and gathering people to support the cause. In his view, this effort remained unsuccessful due to resistance from various entities, including the provincial government, school boards, teachers’ unions, and the Italian government. Despite that, he promoted language education, working alongside local media, scholars, and parents to organize events and workshops.
Date: November 13, 2023 | Location: Toronto, Ontario | Interviewers: Jeff Bale, Mayo Kawaguchi | Length: 1 hr 10 min
Alberto DiGiovanni 11:49
Yes, a lot, multiculturalism—multicultural—The way we define it, because I was one of the critics of multiculturalism as it was conceived, at the beginning. Dancing in the hall and folkloristic, set culture, etc. We began to talk seriously about cultural retention. As you know, as part of our identity. My name was not Albert, or Al, my name is Alberto, and I made it clear that whoever called me Albert, I will correct. But [it] wasn’t just me, then I realized that the more we were doing it, and the more that people were embracing that mentality. And that we made quite a distinction. We wanted to be proud of the language, of the culture, of the heritage. But we didn’t want to be too much associated with the political reality of Italy. While they were trying to expand the role in the immigrant life. There was quite a bit of interference, you know.
Alberto DiGiovanni 17:17
No, we had two coalitions. One within the Italian community, because my idea was that bickering among ourselves wasn’t going to help. And so, we just organize all the different groups to become one: Canadian Centre for Italian Culture and Education. Before there was this, this, and that, so we came one. Including the Pastoral Commission, which eventually they split. And the other was within the community at large. We didn’t work as Italian. We didn’t work just as Italian. I was the chairman of the Metro Communities for International Languages. So that was an alliance to make sure that it was understood that they weren’t going to split us and say, “Okay, we’re Italians against Portuguese; Italians against Chinese.” “No, [we’re] Italian, Portuguese, Chinese, [and] Ukrainian.” First of all, the Italian and Ukrainians, we provided the leadership at the beginning. That’s no question. Then, [the HLP] came out, the groups, eventually the Chinese was very strong, and the Portuguese became strong. But initially, the Ukrainians had many years of experience. And they had this bright person Kruhlak, I don’t know if you ever heard of him, Orest Kruhlak. Now, he was working for the Secretary of State for Multiculturalism. He was the one who introduced the language program, because they call it the cultural program. There was a provincial Heritage Program, and then, there was a cultural program federally. We had access to those funds for a while. And while we were working on this in Ontario.
Alberto DiGiovanni 19:16
So, that was Kruhlak and the Ukrainians. They provide a lot of leadership because there’s a lot of experience, especially in the West. Italians had the experience (pause) since the [19]30s, but the Italian experience was very different. Before [it] was fascist. That’s exactly what we didn’t want. We said, “No, we don’t want them to use it, like they did during fascist years for propaganda.” See, we had sadly quite a bit about the community and the fascist influence. So, we said, “We weren’t from the new generation.” I was. I came from a family of resistance movement. So obviously, I had nothing to do with fascism. But we didn’t want, you know, Dante Society too, which we cared about a lot, during fascism was used by the fascists, and was dismissed by the RCMP. So, we didn’t want to go through that again, we wanted the Dante Society but we didn’t want—so we wanted total control, local, total control. And so, local control means money. [It] means organization. So, we needed to have a structure, an organized group. And that’s why we founded the Canadian Centre. And in money, the first $100,000 came from a group of businessmen in the Italian community, whom I approached and told them, privately, what it was all about. And they were convinced, they said, “Yes, this is a good reason why we should create our own centre and not the one with the consulate.” And they came up with the first (trails off).
If you’re interested in learning more about Alberto’s story, check out the whole interview.
#Toronto Board #Parents #Race, Language and Culture #Languages: Italian, Portuguese, Chinese, Ukrainian #Community groups: National Congress of Italian Canadians, the Federation of Italian Canadian Clubs, the Columbus Centre, the Dante Society
Manuela Marjo’s story offers us vibrant anecdotes and multi-generational insights into the changes of the Portuguese community’s experiences with the Heritage Languages Program. The former Portuguese language instructor and researcher of the Foreign Affairs of Portugal migrated to Toronto with her daughter in 1985. She recalled contrasting experiences as a parent when interfacing with different school boards.
Date: May 25, 2023 | Location: Toronto, Ontario | Interviewers: Jeff Bale, Mayo Kawaguchi | Length: 1 hr 53 min
At beginning, everything was wonderful. I mean, they were really excited, there was a lot of money. The federal government was supporting. So, if you read the laws, at a certain point, federal government sent money. So, they could hire more caretakers, they could hire teacher assistants. So, there was this chance that the bureaucrats or the administrators got money. And of course, that has a lot to do with it. So, the program was very welcomed. The parents—they did a lot of parent meetings, parents this, parents that—because they had the money to do it. The beginning was very, very pleasant. When I came here, I saw it and I said, “Oh my god, this is the ideal world of teaching immigrant kids their language,” because there was support. When I did my study, there was support in the school where I went. The principal was very nice. And she wanted to provide everything that she could, we asked for videos, she would buy the videos. If we would ask for something, she would come and bring an artist or a writer, they would do that. There was money. And I think unfortunately, that were [what] the administrators care about. If there was money, we had visitors from Portugal, there was, the opportunity was there and they really were taking advantage of it.
But, for example, the Toronto School Board and the Catholic school board, huh, they were very different. For example, I remember having a meeting at the Catholic school board with superintendents, with principals of—I don’t know how many schools—the boss, my boss—so this was immediately after I went back to Portugal in 1981. I convinced—well I convinced—I also told them how exciting this was in Canada, etc. So, there was another visit here from the Portuguese officials. And I was, of course, less that day. So, my boss—she couldn’t speak English, but she was addressing the big meeting, it was like 100 something people from different schools. And we were interested in giving, donating books, Portuguese books. And the school board didn’t accept, they said, “Oh, no, no, we do not accept anything from a foreign country. Because we don’t know the content, it has to be approved by the Catholic committee.” And I remember in that meeting, she was trying to say how a language could enhance the opportunity of these kids, and I remember so well, one of the superintendents telling the group, the large group, “Well, listen, I only speak English. I’m doing very well. I’m the superintendent of this board. Why learn the language? You don’t need the language.” I was so [overlap]—this was in the beginning. So, when she came—because I was there, and I had to translate for her. I had to tell her, “They don’t want our books. They don’t think it’s worth to learn the language, because the superintendent just me, even told us ‘I don’t even own a passport. Why do I need a passport? I’m very happy with my life.’” This was Catholic board.
The Toronto School Board, the public, they were always more open. I was in the program committee. It was called Language Promotion Committee. Of course, some of them didn’t speak any other language. But some did, and they could see the positive effect of knowing—I said “Listen, in Europe, we speak at least three [languages] from school. I had to learn French I had to learn English that was compulsory and then I chose German and Italian.” I said, “In Europe, that’s what we do.” They said, “We don’t need more languages.” This was the Catholic board. “I’m perfectly well speaking English.” At a certain point, we had this education campaign “Monolingualism is a Disease” and we wear, you know, our buttons in these meetings. We did that! Because there was so over the years—oh my god, there was so many fights. And as you said at the beginning, Jeff, the language program is always the one they start cutting when there’s a budget, you know, problem.
If you’re interested in learning more about Manuela’s story, check out the whole interview.
#Toronto Board #Metro Separate School Board #Parents #Teachers #Ministry of Education #Language: Portuguese #Heritage Languages Program #School: Huron PS #Race, Language and Culture